create peace projects, we're proud to say we funded their trips to uganda for art education is their main objective. in the period of this 6 to 7 months that we were operating sporadically again with abc permits through the mission statement, we had 0 complaints. we were told by captain moser and the rest at mission statement that we were exemplary in that regard and i loved using this quote, that we are exactly the kind of business that the mission station wants to see in the mission, so towards that, we are continuing with our community outreach programs, our community programs, we opened up our facility up on a weekly basis to several groups free of charge, non-profit groups, we've again throwing

events, very successful events and we are just one step closer to bringing our dreams to fruition here. one -- zack had to remind me that we are the first benefit corporation, we are legitimate, federally recognized benefit corporation, bcorp, the first music venue in the u.s. or theatre in the u.s. that is a benefit corporation, zack is one of the founders of sustainable living road show and is our sustainability guru and he's lead thing way in that regard as far as bcorp status is, and there's some benefits in being a bcorp in our relations with the city and incentive by the day.

anything to add, guys, on that note? >> questions? >> alright, then we'll go ahead and ask you guys some questions, starting with commissioner joseph. >> hi. >> hi. >> so, we have anybody from the fire marshals, which says you have an a3 occupancy. >> correct. >> are you going to have that changed? >> we have an a-2 occupancy as of two or three weeks ago which prompted us coming back to you. >> okay, so this was dated -- okay, so this was dated april 10th. >> i've got a copy of that a-2. >> great, can you let the staff have it, that would be great. are you going to serve -- i'm assuming you're serving some kind of beverages and food or either/or? >> we will. really i think 50% of our

events right now have beverage and/or alcohol associated with them, and obviously on those, we go the conventional route of going through the mission station for those permits. in those cases, obviously our a-2, conditional a-2 comes into play, our a3 is in play when we obviously don't have food or alcohol associated with that. >> are you going to pursue a traditional public asemimri?-- assembly? >> you mean an a-2? >> just for the purposes of clarity so everyone knows what she's talking about, these are different varieties of assembly permits in the fire department that allow numbers of people and this is the viability of this business, and it's a fairly big space but with a smaller occupancy, they can't do the events they wanted to do, so this was posted quite a

while ago and some of these things are dated quite a while ago, but they're back here because they want to make the occupancy higher and it changes if there's alcohol in the mix, given that it's about exiting and exiting safely, so i think the fire department's assumption is when there's alcohol present, people don't exit quite as successfully, so there's more work to be done and i don't know if the commissioners want more specific, expensive changes, i don't know if that's relevant to get into or not. >> i'm just curious. the only reason i asked was i was curious. i'm not done, you're next, i promise, you're next. alright. so, it also says that just in your description here of what you do, you also say that nighttime events, roller disco

which is way cool, wednesday-sunday, 7 p.m. to 2 or 3 a.m. >> [inaudible]. >> this is your paper work, you said this. so, our place of entertain permit ends at 2 a.m.? >> absolutely. >> do you want to go after 2 a.m., that's a different permit, . >> we're not considering that. >> one last question, the type and amount of soundproofing you have because you have live bands, you have those heavy velvet sound curtains. .ing that was an addition, yes. >> my question to you is not that, i want you to describe for me your encapsulated stage and sound audience. >> 150 foot stage curtain, encapsulates stage and audience. can you describe that >> encapsulate, well, first and foremost, i have 100 linear

feet that i brought in of heavy velvet curtain donated to us from the war field, they're amazing curtains, they're double lined thick velvet, they do wonders for the acoustics in the venue, and we have any kind of noise complaints through our history there, but the inclassing lacing would be an up stage curtain, so that deals with the monitor issue and the amp issue of live music and such and one of our common walls, our east side common wall is 75 feet of this curtain, so inclassing lacing may not be the correct word. >> i was curious how you encapsulated it all, and you didn't. okay, cool. alright, thank you very much. i think it would be claustrophobic if you did, you know. >> commissioner lee, then i think commissioner hyde?

>> yeah, on the occupancy, the difference is whether or not you have to have extra fire sprinklers or a life safety so, what is your capacity that you're going to be -- are you rated at, at this point? >> 298, we have a 298 person capacity in the venue. >> how many square feet is your -- >> the overall square feet, we do have on-site, we have -- we're separated, we were separated by fire corridor which was mandated by the fire department which separates our welding shop, high risk welding shop from the public assembly area, so excluding that from square footage, we're at 10 thousand footprint, square foot prin and we're down to probably 7200 square feet, not including the rear shops that aren't part of our -- >> is it all one level? >> we have a mezzanine as well,

mezzanine that is off limit, it's part of our art classes. >> okay, so my thing is you could actually put 800 people in there? >> we can, so almost i think to go back to audrey's question, we are in pursuit of fire sprinklers, we are in pursuit of our third egress out of the building where we definitely understand that potential there. >> so, can you tell me your policy then, how to maintain or i mean, are you refusing certain parties that they can't -- >> we are absolutely, we are a clicker at the door, right inside when the ticket takes, and we just maintain it. we -- >> do you let your promoters know ahead of time that that's the cap. >> yes, that's part of our contract where the promoters. >> how's the ceiling insulation? >> there is none. well, there's probably 8 layers of tar t layers on top

of this thing, but i have my little decibel reader inside, where you walk on to the sidewalk, you need public sidewalk around us. >> and you have no skylights? >> yes, we do. >> sound leaks through skylights. er >> it surnlbacker certainly does, we have skylights all along the building. >> you have neighbors on the back that are level with your roof? >> we do, we have neighbors, that would be a two and a half storey high, we have neighbors directly across the street and that build ising a 7 storey building i believe. >> have you discussed -- i guess commissioner hyde will go next, but discuss with them or have they heard you during these other shows? >> we have a unique footprint in the way our building is laid out into where our physical activities are on either side of us are a metal shop and an act prop shot, out of our front

door and across the street is another business which is not open in the evenings, that metal shop separates an alley and the apartment complex behind it so we've never had an issue, we kind of naibl with the neighbors back there, but we've never heard of one complaint yet. >> the skylight is in the assembly area though? >> it is, [inaudible] throughout the building. >> i'm done, but bear in mind, you might have to cap those. >> and we anticipate that as well, we're in it for the long hall, so we are definitely considering spray acoustics. inger >> i love the welding shop. >> sxit's pumping right now, come on by. >> i think commissioner hyde had some comments or questions. >> did you approach any neighborhood organizations or not for profit ins the area to

talk about this? >> we did. >> can you tell me what they were. >> sure. we are an extension of the shell space programming, we've kept all of the programming, we didn't kick artists out of the facility, we didn't kick any of the long term tenants that we had which our longest term tenant on a weekly basis, the as t*ek tans group. >> what i'm talking about is going to these groups and saying, hey, we're applying for this permit and, you know, you're a neighborhood association so we wanted to talk to you about this, did you make any -- >> so far, we've done the san francisco green business certification, so we're about two thirds of the way through that process with them. >> okay. so, -- >> and beyond that, this is -- i need to point out that this is -- shell space had a poe the entire time of its existence, so that's what being part of

that collective -- >> so, it's not a new poe really. >> okay, i understand. >> yeah. >> but we did outreach to neighborhoods just by foot and there's more than 40 people in my circuit and we get out and about and work in the community in every regard. we keep up the gardens, what is the gardens? >> esperonza gardens. >> i was wondering if you could please inform me what kind of benefits your neighborhood outreach you feel have brought you? >> i think the big part of it is our business plan of what we do moving forward. we are still considering ourselves just getting into this space right now especially with the turn of events, the slow down of our business, it's been a big part of our plan to have community benefit be part of our business plan, so give back programs, grant programs, upkeep on the gardens, art

program. >> with did limited program, i believe that you guys are really good people and you have really good hearts and i'm glad something that is going into shell space that is so community oriented but the idea is to go out and tell people that you're getting a limited live permit, so have you done that? >> well, again, we've had this limited live permit throughout -- >> it's not a place of entertainment permit? >> it's a place of entertainment or live? >> so, this is a continuation of an old poe? >> but none of those collective neighbors are still here and we're the one who are fighting the financial bullet. >> so, i'm confused as to what this means so i'm going to bring that up later, so thanks. >> okay, sure. >> alright, so are there any other questions or comments from commissioners? if not, we can open it up to the public comment, and if

mission station has any comments? >> so much going on in the mission. >> so, commissioners, i'm sure you're all familiar with the issue of shell space, it goes back many years, our file is very extensive on this place, we could probably write an action movie on all the exciting things that have come out of the space over the years. when the new team came forward and met with us at mission station, i have to admit, we were very excited about moving on in a positive way, moving beyond all the history that has occurred there, that it's been challenging from a public safety perspective, and i believe that this team really

wanted to come in and create a new direction. i apologize if i keep referring to them as shell space, is it inner mission? >> yes. >> that being said, i think that what happened was almost immediately we were seeing some of the same activity that had happened previously with the shell space ownership. that is there was a lot of activity in the area of applying for abc one day permits, there was a lot of activity as it relates to third party promoters coming in, 18 and over type entertainment and so on, so really, nothing changed from our perspective, and in fact, we as i recall and i don't have the file,

investigated and discovered there were events where alcohol was being served that was not permitted, so ultimately, and i think the captain used some words but i'm sure it wasn't in the line of excitement for this place, he wanted us to discontinue issuing one day abc for this venue, and i'm not sure any will be issued going forward because we're not sure that what they're presenting is what they're actually doing. my concern is the third party promoters, the 18 and over entertainment, particularly when there's alcohol being served, so we have submitted some conditions, number 8 and 9, i think i circled those. we're very concerned about third party promoters, we want to make sure they're

legitimate, that they're invested in the safety of the venue, that they notify us in advance when they're going to be engaging these third party promoters and that they prove that they have insurance, general liability insurance for that special event. the alcohol thing is a separate thing, as far as the one day stuff, we'll have to address that separately with them because it is a separate issue from the entertainment permit, so we're not oppose today the entertainment permit being issued with these conditions as long as they understand them and they're going the take them seriously and we're not going to issue abc one day permits and allow them to have an 18 and over entertainment venue. so, i was hoping maybe they could comment about that. >> officer bruk n*er, if you don't mind, i don't know if any

of the commissioners that sit on this commission today remembers any of that shell space stuff because -- so, there's just two of us because that was the time [inaudible] and i've directed to staff, i'm not sure that -- have we had any notification of incidents at 20150 bryant street in the last 15 years for instance that you know of? >> well, i'm sorry, i didn't bring the old shelf space file with me, but it's been quite some time with those activities that inner mission was doing, moved to another location all together when they had a problem with the capacity and the fire issues so i would have to go back to be really specific on my answer, but it's not been a year for sure to say. >> as far as one day permits

and i know the alu is in the audience, but maybe you can correct me if i'm wrong. is it not true that a space can only have so many in a given year or a given month? it's like one a month per address or something like that, is that not true? >> well, ultimately, it's the captain's decision as to whether or not he or she will issue the permit at all. it's entirely on the captain, so they're not obligated to issue a certain number. >> but is there an abc ordinance that you are aware of that limits one-day permits for any location? >> yes, there is. >> alright. so, that even in, you know, the worst case scenario, they can om get a certain amount of permits per year? >> well, not necessarily. they change the non-profit from one to another and they continue applying, if i'm mistaken, alu can correct me on this matter, but it may not be sloshed to the actual physical

address, rather the non-profit at that address. that may be a technical thing. >> we should look into that and see exactly what that is. >> ultimately the captain will decide, it doesn't matter if there's one or two or 10 non-profits involved, if there are a significant number of applications and associated with those applications, we've had a significant number of public safety problems, then he'll just simply not approve the permits going forward. >> okay, but -- so, correct me if i'm wrong, our permit really is not, although we try to go side by side with the abc, we can issue a permit whether there's an abc license or not and we can decide whether to issue one going forward? >> it's all interrelated, they're the last entertainment, advertised venues that they had

there that ended up getting cancelled because they had no permits, they were going to have a live burlesque nude show and there was alcohol at that event, they didn't submit that to us as such, they submitted to us as this was this amazing non-profit that they were going to benefit but in reality, they didn't tell us that it's a burlesque show that they're having, and that makes a difference to the entertainment permit as well so, we just want transparency, we want to know exactly what's happening and until we do and until we're comfortable with it, i don't believe the captain's issuing any one day abc permits. >> so, burlesque is not necessarily nude, as i know, i don't think this commission is

aware of this problem at this address in the last 12 months and maybe longer and if you guys have seen problems with it and we don't know about it, it's on you to let us know, right. >> commissioners, i understand there hasn't been a lot of activity at this address, there's been no entertainment, that's why you wouldn't hear of any problems. >> so, we can't assume that it's going to be bad if there hasn't been much. >> i'm excited about the new ownership and moving on in a positive way and putting -- and working together with them, so that we can come up with a reasonable and transparent way to work with them. we want to understand what's happening. we don't believe that that has happened so far. it's kind of the same thing that happened before. >> okay, thank you. >> thank you. >> i have a question, officer.

>> go ahead, commissioner lee? >> has the police met with their security team yet? >> officer buck n*er? >> their proposed security team. >> i don't know if the permit officer at mission station has met with them, you know officer parker is working with this and i'm filling in today and i'm giving you what i know from my memory. i think she is working with them, right? >> [inaudible]. >> right. >> where does that say that has to happen? >> i'm just curious, they have to have security. >> but they don't have to meet with the commission: it's not with the commission yet. >> let's take public comment and then we can discuss whatever we need to after that. are there any public comment on this? you guys aren't the public. nope. seeing none, public comment is closed. the matter is now with the

commission. >> so, i just want to say that for those of you who don't know, shelf space was problematic years ago, they had a bunch of parties that ran out of control for a lot of reasons including the naivety of the people who ran the party and is the people who came in there. there hasn't been a lot of activity there now, so i think that from my perspective, i do believe that a space that -- a venue that provides space for artists of all types, kids of all ages to come in and whether they have alcohol or not is important in the actual --

cultural activity in our community, if they can do 18 and over, that would be great. i understand these people should be straight up with the police at all times and not embellish or not leave out information when applying for permits with the station because the station sends patrol cars out and so if you're not 100% truthful, they're going to know it and you won't have the courtesy of having them on your side going forward, but i do believe this is an important space. i'm excited that it's being developed by a new group that seeps to be working really hard and investing a bunch of cash into it and i think that that speaks to their desire to have success. so, having said that, to that end -- >> can i make a comment. >> i would like to make a

motion to approve this permit including our good neighbor policy and with regard to the police conditions -- >> excuse me, commissioner joseph, so when they first filled out their application, it was several months ago and the police conditions that i just handed to officer buck n*er had 11 conditions on it, he was talking about 8 and 9 which are not on the new conditions that we received yesterday. so, i think that the conditions that he was talking about had to do with third party promoters and getting liability insurance, so if i can ask officer buck n*er to give me those back, -- >> are these conditions or not? >> the conditions that you have in your folder were submitted yesterday. >> so, they're the newest ones, they're the most recent. >> so, why would we not use the most recent conditions?

>> you can, i'm just trying to clarify that he had been discussing -- i just wanted you to know that he was talking about the third party conditions, and those are not on the conditions you have that are the most recent. >> and i would like to say that when tim eiker came here and was asked to do the same thing, we said that was probably not something that the venue should be responsible to and have that insurance attached to their permit before. >> right, because -- i have to assume that they have general liability insurance to cover their venue for trip and fall. if they choose to have a promoter, doesn't our promoter legislation say the promoter has to have insurance, do you know? the promoter legislation? >> it does not say that. >> if they choose to allow a promoter in there without additional insurance, they would be the first sued, so that's on them. if they want to -- if they want

to force a promoter to get insurance and name them, i mean, that's what i would do if it was my venue, but i mean, i think that's a business decision on their part and if they want to take the hit if something happens, that's their decision. i agree with commissioner hyde, so in finishing making my motion, so i am looking at the most current police conditions and i don't see anything that i would eliminate except -- once again, i want to talk to officer parker about repeating stuff that's in our good neighbor policy, anyway, that's my motion, so my motion is to approve with our good neighbor

policy and the 9 police commissions. >> alright, is there a second? >> i would like to make a second and an amendment. so, i would second the motion and i would like to ask as an amendment that we strike number 3 as it's redundant with the good neighbor policy and then i have a question about number 4, and management shall enforce cantilevering provisions of san francisco mp c-1 21 and cooperate with sfpd regarding enforcement actions. i've never seen that before as a -- and to me, they have to manage crowds within 100 feet and so that i think, you know, they already are required to manage their prouds within 100 feet, so this to me sounds also a bit redundant and i would like the strike that. >> so, i have no problem

accepting your amendment for number 3, however, i don't know if this is the proper code section, i know this commission worked hard to get an antiloiterbacking piece of legislation through to get the people to get to move on and call police, and it is a tool that we use to protect patrons from becoming victims, and we -- i mean, to officer parker's credit, we find very often that venues are not aware of our codes and don't know they have this power, so i have no problem with that. it's a tool for the venue. it's not an extra burden. i think that that police condition should remain and that we should -- since we don't work to familiarize our venues of that particular tool, i think that this might help to do that in my